PODCAST: Tide's Cold Wash Revolution Towards Sustainable Fabric Care with Todd Cline

We talk with Todd Cline, the Sr Director of Sustainability at Procter and Gamble and a leading sustainability expert. We discuss the innovative world of sustainable fabric care and explore the groundbreaking efforts of brands like Tide, Downy, and Gain in reducing their environmental footprint and the significant role that consumer behavior plays in achieving sustainability goals. Discover how P&G is pushing the boundaries of eco-friendly practices, from championing cold water washing to their ambitious net-zero targets. Hear firsthand about their partnerships, like those with the NFL, and their exciting journey in reducing emissions. 

Key Points:

• P&G's journey towards net zero by 2040 and its strategies for reducing scope three emissions.
• The impact of consumer behavior on sustainability, and Tide's campaigns to promote cold wash settings.
• Innovative partnerships and product developments aimed at reducing water and energy usage in fabric care.
  

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Transcript

Todd: I think number one is, before we did any of the communication, we had to know the product was going to deliver. And we have to keep raising the bar on the performance and letting the consumer know about that. Right now, we're just looking for ways we can engage people and help them make that choice, regardless of the motivation behind it.

Announcer: You're listening to CPG launch leaders, the show where we interview new product trailblazers. Get ready for inspiration and secrets from the front lines of CPG innovation. Now, here are our hosts, Darcy Ramler and Alan Peretz.

Allan: Welcome to CPG launch leaders. I'm Alan Peretz, and I'm here with my co host, Darcy Rambler. Today's guest is Todd Klein. Todd is an innovation leader and a sustainability expert. He leads some very exciting initiatives that we're going to hear more about today.

Darcy: That's right, Allen Todd is here to talk about sustainability efforts from North America's fabric care industry, focusing on tide and making eco friendly waves and how America does laundry. Todd, we're beyond excited to have you on to talk. Before we dive into your story, we love to start each episode with one particular question. Currently, what new product has caught your attention in the market?

Todd: Uh, I would say it may be more of a process than a product even, but I was recently at the green Biz conference. So a sustainability conference a few weeks ago, and I got to send in on a few sessions about circular fashion. And I think just the number of people, it was eye opening to me. 31% of us consumers have bought used clothing in the past year. And a couple of companies that, ah, got spent some time with like thredup, which creates a marketplace for people to buy and sell used clothing. And also trove who it, uh, helps with. A lot of brands like Lululemon and Patagonia, brands that we use in our house. And I, uh, think a lot of are doing a lot to create processes to do circular fashion. And obviously, there's a great value aspect to it when, uh, you buy something that's been previously owned, but then from working in the sustainability space and also fabrics as well, uh, just what it can offer from a reducing carbon footprint, reducing the waste, going to landfill. And I just think it's a really cool emerging space.

Darcy: Absolutely. ReI actually has opened stores that is same concept there, that they're reselling some of their product or buying back product from consumers, and then they have them next to their actual store. So I agree with you on that.

Todd: And they're going beyond even the clothing there as well. One of the Rai folks spoke at the conference as well. And, yeah, it's a neat space.

Allan: Great. So, Todd, can you tell us a bit about your role at Procter and gamble?

Todd: Sure. Uh, it's the boring one. My title is senior brand director for sustainability in North America fabric care. What that really means is I get the pleasure of leading our fabric care sustainability efforts for brands like Tide, Downy Gain, Draft Bounce, uh, everything from making sure we have strong technical plans for all the commitments we've made around climate waste water. How do we ladder that into what are our innovation plans for the products, but then also how do we communicate it out to consumers, uh, in partnering with our retailers, with thought leaders. So, really getting to be multifunctional in the space. But, uh, I did grow up in the R and D organization at P&G so I'm a scientist by training, but have, uh, the luck of being able to be in this job where I get to be a bit functionless.

Darcy: Amazing. Well, can you tell us a little bit about the net zero commitment?

Todd: Yeah. So, uh, at P&G as a company, we've committed to net zero by 2040, which I'm really excited about that because all the science says we really need the earth to be net zero by 2050. And the fact that the total company has stepped into. We want to get there by 2040. But, uh, I know you guys do a lot with, uh, CPG companies and thinking in time frames. 2040 is a long, long way out in our time pass of what we work on. So, in addition to net zero by 2040, we also have pretty significant 2030 commitments as well. So by 2030, what we've committed to is, will be climate neutral for our manufacturing operations. So scope one and scope two, emissions and sustainability jargon. But getting to climate neutrality for our manufacturing operations and also having the whole company on 100% renewable electricity, by that time, our business is actually already there. Uh, we help finance building a wind farm out in Tyler Bluff, Texas, that generates more renewable electricity than our fabric and home care organization, North America, uses for an entire year for our operations. We've already achieved that here, so we're ahead of schedule on that one. So that's our manufacturing and operations. But I think the even tougher one that we've taken on is reducing our, what's called scope three emissions. So it's the emissions of our products. So the raw materials we used to make them, and also the packaging components of. By 2030, we're going to reduce the impact of those from a carbon intensity standpoint by 40% per use. So we're driving down the carbon footprint of the products, but at the same time, we've committed to continue to drive up the product superiority. So it's generally as you go up in performance, carbon intensity follows and we're on a path of how do we drive up performance, but at the same time drive down the CO2 footprint.

Allan: So, Todd, you said you're an, uh, R and D person by trade. So, uh, science plays a big role in what you do and how you think. How does science play into sustainability in your job?

Todd: Yeah. So we, uh, use a tool that I think most companies now have embraced and are using. It's not a PNG tool, but really out there for all of industry called lifecycle assessment, or LCA. And it looks at, uh, what's the impact of a product from cradle to grave? And it's what's the impact of making the raw materials, making the packaging components, your manufacturing, transport, consumer use and also the end of life for the product and packaging. And we really use that to guide our work. So I'll ask a question of you guys. As you think of those different areas, which one do you think would have the biggest impact on doing a load of laundry between the raw materials, the packaging, the manufacturing, uh, using it at home or the end of life?

Allan: I'd say end of life. I just think of the landfill.

Darcy: I'm thinking manufacturing.

Todd: Yeah. And those are both really common answers we get because they're very tangible. If you can see, uh, a manufacturing operation or you can touch and feel packaging.

Darcy: But, uh, that's Todd's way of saying we were wrong. Alan.

Todd: It was very good. Very good answers. But almost 70% of the carbon footprint of doing a load of laundry is actually the consumer use phase. And that's all driven by what temperature do you choose to do your wash on? If someone switches from hot to cold, it's a 90% reduction in that in use energy. If they go from warm to cold, it's a 70% reduction. So warm is not good enough. So you ask, how do we incorporate science into our sustainability work? As we looked@our.net? Zero commitment. Net zero really covers cradle to gate, and that gate is transport out to our retailers. So raw materials, packaging, manufacturing and transport. And we thought, wow, almost 70% of the impact if we just do net zero, which is incredibly important, uh, we want to tackle the biggest problem. So in addition to net zero, we've also taken on a second commitment of we want to get 75% of loads in North America to cold by 2030. So we have an additional, um, ambition for tide of getting 75% of loads there. And it will be a massive impact. It would be 27 plus million tons of CO2 avoided for the decade. So it's a hard number to wrap your mind around. Just for context, that's over ten x the total p and g operations emissions, or it's the equivalent of powering both San Francisco and New York for an entire year.

Darcy: So we know obviously major change needs to be made, and obviously you have the stats that go along with what could be that impact, um, on our, you know, on sustainability, on our climate. But how do you go about convincing the consumer? We know it's incredibly hard where people that also consumers have been taught, you know, warm or hot laundry, you're disinfecting, you're doing certain things. So is there any campaigns, is there anything that you're doing to communicate, obviously, with the consumer and trying to look at it more from that behavioral science standpoint with the consumers?

Todd: Yeah, you're spot on. It is a learned behavior. Generally, people are taught to do laundry by someone, often their parents, and, uh, they're taught, you know, there are some things you wash on cold, and those tend to be the things you don't want to shrink, you don't want to fade, things that you care about the most. And then for tougher things, you need warm water or hot water to clean them. So, uh, I think behavior change starts with we have to have a product that can back it up. So a ton of our effort and focus is making sure that tide works incredibly well on cold. And it's not that tide on cold is better than tide on warm or better than tide on hot. As you add in that energy, the product will work better, but it's making it work so well on cold that you don't need it on warm or hot is our focus. So the first thing is, before we convince anyone to wash on cold, we need to make sure that they're going to be delighted when they wash with our product on, um, cold. But once we've gotten to there, we did launch what we called our cold callers campaign back in 2021. So we made this declaration in 2020 to get 75% of loads on cold. At that point, 48% of loads in the US run cold. So it was already, we weren't starting from zero. And that's because there are a lot of things that people care about. They don't want it to shrink, they don't want them to fade. That was in January of 2020. We made the declaration. I don't know if you remember, March of 2020, we had quite, uh, the global pandemic that happened and at that time people started actually washing fewer loads on cold and it dropped down to 41%. So in our first few months we were a minus seven on our result just because of the impacts of COVID and we weren't sure how it, how COVID was transferring. So people were washing more loads on warm, uh, and hot at that point. But then in 2021 we started our activation with cold callers of uh, highlighting just the benefits of Washington cold in a really, really engaging way with a bunch of stars, um, stone cold and ice tea and others, uh, telling people about, you can get a deep down clean on cold plus you can reduce your carbon footprint and by the way, you can save up to $150 per year on your utility bills. And that really jump started the progress of washing on cold. So we started down the path there. Uh, we reached a point in the fifties on percentage so we were making good progress. But then we also did a program along with WWF to bring in a company that is really, it's a think tank on behavior change called the Behavioral Insights team and partnered with them on working. How do we help nudge behavior change for this ingrained habit of how I've been taught to do laundry and what we developed together and it's available on WWF's website today for anyone to uh, go out and access this. But it's the east model of uh, how do we make it easy, attractive, social and timely is the basics of the model. And as we think about applying behavior science to uh, getting people to wash more loads of laundry and cold uneasy, well that starts at the machine, right. Of uh, how do you, number one, default more loads to cold when people start to do laundry? And number two, make it really simple to choose cold anytime that they're going to do a load of laundry. So we have really great partnerships with companies like GE Appliances, Electrolux, Samsung, that I think this year you will see uh, on the machines, more cues about washing in cold and more cycles that are in cold to help in that. How do we bring people into more and more of the loads done on cold? So that's easy attractive. That claim of save up to $150 per year by washing on cold, that's really attractive to people. Regardless of where people are on their sustainability journey. Everybody wants to save money. So that's one of the core ways we've worked on making it attractive from a social standpoint. We've just tried to really have it show up as big and popular. Starting with the cold Callers campaign. We've done some great work with the NFL, we've worked with Haynes, we've worked with a lot of partners to amplify our voice and then on timely, really engaging people at the point where they're doing laundry. So on our packaging, as people dispense the product or get out a pod, uh, they're engaging with cues to wash on cold. At that point, certainly our washing machine manufacturer partners I mentioned are doing more branding on the machine about wash on cold and wash on cold with Tide. That will show up in the market this year. And even a partner like Haynes, if you look at their care labels, it talks about washing on cold on the care label. And they've done partnerships with us for in store activations and packaging, talking about tide and hanes together, helping people make the choice to wash on cold. So I think following that model and looking for different touch points and different strategies to engage people on, a, yes, you really can get it clean on cold, and b, there's benefits in doing it for you, and then c, it's just the you have to interrupt people at the doing laundry point of doing laundry to have people think and make that choice.

Darcy: I was thinking of it as you were talking about my washing machine. I'm, um, pretty positive that most of the settings you go to put it on, it starts on warm always. So it is a, to your point of having to make the choice to change it to cold versus maybe even starting at cold and then making the choice to change it elsewhere.

Todd: Absolutely. Absolutely. We need to take away that friction.

Darcy: Definitely.

Allan: So, Todd, you talked about a lot of partnerships. Can you tell me a bit more about, uh, what you're doing with the NFL?

Todd: Yeah, um, it was an incredibly fun partnership. We did a really big activation with them. I guess it was the season of 21 22 where, uh, we just thought about what are really tough jobs to do it on Washington cold. That could help consumers see that. Ah, yes, I can get, I can have my household get clean on cold. And the NFL has incredibly tough laundry to do. So we partnered with the NFL to convert half of the teams over to washing on cold that season. And we actually switched them over to washing with tide on cold. Their uniforms, their towels, their practice gear, everything. And the NFL has incredibly high standards for how the uniforms have to show up, uh, for tv, rightfully so. And it was an amazing experience getting to work with them on both going through the. How do you technically change over an organization like this to washing on cold and, you know, what are the results going to be? Because you have, you know, paint on the field, on the mud, certainly body soils, you know, ten x what most of us experience in our homes. And the results have been terrific. But then also just the fun of getting to work with the NFL. I don't know that I can support the claim of, it's a guarantee. But in that year, both the Cincinnati Bengals, which is where we're based, and the LA Rams were washing on cold with tide and both ended up in the Super bowl. Unfortunately for us in Cincinnati, the Bengals, uh, couldn't pull it off. Um, but that was a really fun campaign to be a part of and it just, it helped, you know, more voices telling the story of, yes, you can make the choice to wash on cold and you can get a great deep down clean. And we had, Matt Ryan was a part of our advertising at that time, and just a really fun campaign.

Allan: Who does the laundry for the NFL, by the way?

Todd: So in their stadiums, they actually have large laundry, uh, near the locker room, and they've got a staff that they take care of all the laundry. And it's, you know, it's, there's practice gear, lots of towels. They even, they have settings for the coaches clothes as well that are different than, uh, you know, what the cycles are for the uniforms.

Darcy: So you, we've talked a little bit about the partnerships and obviously having them across all different industries here, um, of the activations or marketing initiatives that you guys have transpired over the last several years, what do you consider the most effective or the ones that you found were the most fun to work on?

Todd: Yeah, well, they've all been fun. Uh, it's hard to be doing stuff with the NFL. And I remember our first meeting with them, getting to hold the door for Joe Burrow as he was walking into the locker room right after coming back from his, uh, uh, first injury. That was a ton of fun. We also, um, we did some work with Malcolm Gladwell. It's been neat to just are thinking of multiple voices in the ecosystem with these partnerships of getting to work with so many people from a. What's been most effective? I think it's been being humble and listening to the consumer on talking about reducing carbon footprint is not the most impactful message, as much as I am super passionate about the environment and many, many consumers are, and it's growing and growing. Uh, the fact that you can save $150 is what we've seen has been a really, really strong trigger point of people seeing an immediate benefit versus a future benefit of stemming climate change. People want to feel good about the brands they're buying. There's a huge intention, um, rating on people wanting to make choices that reduce impacts, but there's also an intention action gap in a lot of places. But when you can see that, wow, I can get a deep down clean and save $150, that's really been impactful for us.

Allan: So you talked about, um, consumer behavior and habits and perceptions. Beyond the efficacy concerns that shoppers might have, are there, uh, any other barriers that you're, uh, trying to address?

Todd: So I think the first one, absolutely efficacy. Uh, back to our discussion of being taught that there are certain loads that need hot, certain that need warm, certain that need cold. Uh, but the other really that we're up against is, uh, we make a lot of decisions every day as humans and we try to streamline our thinking process as much as possible. Getting people to engage in the decision at the washing machine and just, um, break complacency or break autopilot at the point of doing the laundry is also an important one. And that's why having things like the cues on the machine and on our package is so important of, uh, engaging people at the point of doing laundry as well to try to just break the complacency. But then also, how do we get more and more loads back to what you said, Darcy, of just have it default to code because then you can be complacent and it just happens. And that's really, um, I think a great insight of how do we just have less and less thinking required to let people make the most sustainable choice automatically.

Darcy: Well, we've done so much to train the consumer to make it easier and easier. Like pods is the definition of making it easier, right? So even I think about, even when we're doing dishwashing anything, it's, we've trained us to just say, okay, I'm just grabbing this little thing, I can pop it in there. And here we go. So it's almost okay. Now you got to take a step back and think about what, you know, is it going to be cold, is it going to be warm, is it going to be hot? So there's a little bit of a, uh, push pull there with how we've trained the consumer. Um, stepping back from that, but a little bit on your, we've talked marketing efforts and what has been going on over the last several years. Um, it has to be, you have to take into factors, some of this being generational too, right? From different age groups. How are you reaching the younger consumer or the younger buyer? Are there any specific efforts, or do you feel like you have to push more of a brand awareness play when it comes to these younger buyers?

Todd: I don't think so much brand awareness. Tide's been around for 75 plus years and has. We've got pretty good awareness right now. I think we do tailor our messaging. Um, one starting back with what was most compelling to the general population with the save up to $150. Uh, but also, uh, we're doing a lot of work in how do we reach different consumers? Where do we reach different consumers as we think about social and just where do people engage and, uh, receive the message? We know, um, there's a large portion of the US that are what we would call eco conscious in our sustainability segmentation, and it's over 20%. And if you look at the top couple of segments, 40% plus. So it's not a small niche group that we're talking about reaching. So that helps some of it. It's pretty broad scale on the people that want to reduce their impact, but we are testing different ways to reach different people, for sure.

Allan: So, Todd, when we first met, you mentioned a cascade initiative that, uh, was very successful in driving behavior change. Can, um, you tell us a bit more about that one and any parallels to what you're doing now?

Todd: Yeah, it's a huge parallel to what we're doing because the life cycle assessment on cascade looks very similar to that one on laundry of by far the biggest driver of the footprint of, uh, washing dishes is what you do at the sink or in the dishwasher. And what our scientists over on the cascade team found was that when people hand wash or pre wash dishes, use, um, a lot of hot water, because hot water comes out at, I think, ah, two gallons per minute from the faucet. So a lot of water comes out. And dishwashers are designed and engineered to be very, very efficient machines on the amount of water they use. So what the team there found was that if you had eight or more items that you're washing, it's actually less water and less energy than hand washing them. So the cascade example is another great one of helping people make a more sustainable choice by skip the pre washing, skip the hand washing, just put it into the dishwasher. And if you've got eight or more items, you're actually reducing your water and energy use versus if you did it by hand.

Darcy: Ooh. Todd, you just gave me a very good argument in our household because this is constantly going back and forth between my husband and I. So I can't wait tonight when he wants to talk about rinsing all the dishes and the water that all of that. So I am now equipped with a good stat.

Todd: Yeah. And it's a hard habit to break. It's just like on laundry. But that's one of the things I love that we've taken on is in addition to net zero, looking for where can we really have the biggest impact? And for several of our categories, it's how the consumers use our product, how people use them, and just the amount of effort we're investing into helping people make those sustainable choices is really exciting.

Darcy: Absolutely. So how do you view PNG's role in driving sustainability initiatives in the industry?

Todd: Yeah, well, um, one, obviously we're a leader with many of our brands like Tide and Cascade. So I think it's incumbent upon us to be leaders in driving sustainability for those spaces as well. I think second, uh, if you look at our mission statement and purpose and principles, uh, and values as a company, we talk about we provide superior products for consumers now and for generations to come. That is not a recent addition to our company mission statement that has been there for a long time. We have been working with diligence on what are the impacts of our products and packaging on the environment for many, many years. It really is built into the DNA of the company. And I think it just shows up with the fact that, yes, we signed up not just for net zero, but let's do net zero by 2040, not by 2050. And great that we're doing net zero, but in categories where we can really enable the consumer to have a bigger impact. Let's tackle consumer behavior as well. And I just love the fact that we have both a commitment to science and also a commitment to our values. And that really plays out in the sustainability efforts the company puts forth.

Allan: So we've talked about the role of behavior change and the importance of changing the shoppers behavior. But you also mentioned product and packaging. Is there anything on the horizon, uh, on those fronts that, uh, you could tell us about?

Todd: Yeah, sure. Um, we've talked mainly climate here. But if you look at our total sustainability construct as a company, we have four key pillars that we're focused on. One is climate, uh, one is waste, which is where packaging is focused. And certainly a lot of focus on circular packaging. And there we have commitments of, uh, 100% of the packaging will be recyclable or reusable by 2030, and 50% reduction in virgin resin per use. By 2030, the vast majority of our fabric care packaging here in North America already is recyclable. Um, we also have commitments on water to reduce our water use in our operations by 35%. So for us, that shows up as concentrating tide, as we're doing right now, a round of concentration as we move to low water forms like tide pods and downy unstoppables that are much lower water. And then also nature. How do we think about the impact of what we're doing on nature, both from a. As we source materials, but also what goes out into nature, because our products obviously go down the drain. So, um, I think for us, we're focused in all of those areas. Maybe one of the most exciting ones in that space for us in tide is we're about to launch tide evo right now into a test market in Colorado. This is coming out after a decade of research, and it's really reinventing the laundry category. And what it is is 100% concentrated, clean, packed into a small, lightweight tile. And it's years of research on creating, uh, fibers and surfactants and other cleaning ingredients are built into these fibers that are spun, and you have thousands of them in these small tiles that are delivered to deliver the clean of tide and almost immediate magical dissolution in water. And, um, because they are made of these fibers and we don't have to ship water around, we're also able to move them away from our traditional packaging into paper cartons. So that's, uh, one that it's launching now, basically. And we're very, very excited about it.

Allan: Yeah, the transportation cost benefit has to be, uh, pretty significant for that, too.

Todd: Yeah. When you take all of the water out of a product, basically, that's being shipped around, it's a great impact for transportation. Just the amount of space it takes up, in addition to the amount of weight, um, the fact that we can get it into paper packaging, which has some, certainly benefits from a carbon footprint on packaging and helping, uh, to drive circularity. Uh, but also from a consumer standpoint, there's a portion of consumers who are really, really delighted by the ability to buy products in paper packaging. They get very excited about this one.

Darcy: So, um, as you're going through this, obviously measurement has to be a topic of conversation. And how are you looking at metrics and indicators that are really assessing, um, the success of your sustainability initiatives?

Todd: Yeah, measurement, that's a, certainly a big challenge in the sustainability space. M maybe we can chat about the, uh, consumer behavior metrics, because I think there's a lot out there on measuring, uh, emissions with suppliers and things like that, which is a big area of focus for us. But as we think about measuring the impact of getting people to switch their habits, we use a variety of things from, uh, large scale surveys, like 6700 people of, you know, what percent of your loads are on what temperatures. We also do what we call diary studies, where we'll have consumers just, uh, record every load of laundry, what all was in it, how large was the load, what temperature did you wash it on? Other machine settings. Then we also have what we call our connected laundry room, which is an ongoing panel where we are constantly measuring a bunch of attributes for a large panel of people from, you know, the weights of the laundry, um, composition of it, things like that, and wash temperature. So we use all of those to guide us on how we're doing. Like I said, when we started this in 2020, we were at 48% of loads run cold. We had the dip down to about 41 as the, uh, pandemic hit. But we've been able to track, we are at the end of 2023, up to 57% of loads, and the US run cold now, and that's avoided almost 4 million tons of CO2 into the atmosphere. So we're pretty excited about where we've gotten to. We still got more to go to get 75% by 2030. But we've made significant progress. But yes, tracking and measurement is one of the key things that we've had a focus on, even with the washing machine partnerships for the partners who have connected machines, when consumers agree to connect their systems, uh, they're able to provide us data of the actual buttons the consumer even entered on the machine.

Allan: So tide has huge household penetration. Do you find that you're able to reach everybody with the same message, or do you have to vary it a little bit, uh, by group?

Todd: I think different messages speak to different people. Uh, like I said, the save, uh, $150 message, that's been pretty ubiquitous of a lot of people really want to save money, but just with cold as the example, there's other benefits. And we've seen different consumer groups sparked a different message. So a lot of people intuitively know that if I wash on cold, it's going to help my clothes last longer, void, shrink, fade. It's just, it's easier on the clothes. And for, we talked about consumers early on that more and more people are thrifting and buying used clothes, and they see real value in that. I just look at our household of, um, we have two kids, so, uh, we certainly did some passing around of clothes, but we have a boy and a girl. Makes it a little, uh, harder. But within our neighborhood, we have like four houses together that it's a mix of boys and girls that are all different ages. And being able to pass along those clothes was just a great benefit for all of us. So seeing the ability to help clothes last longer really speaks to some people. And then there are a lot of people who are really looking for how can I reduce my carbon footprint? What are things that I can do in my home and have an impact? And, um, when they hear the impact of doing a load of laundry and cold and reducing the energy by 90%, that's really impactful to them. Um, yeah, I think there's some tailoring of messages, but there's also some like the dollar savings that resonate pretty broadly.

Darcy: Absolutely. That's how I, having two kids is how I found out about Rei having a secondhand store. And, you know, when you have to buy ski clothes and they're growing out of them every year and you have to do, ah, you know, cleats and things of that nature, I'm constantly like, okay, another season of this. So how are we gonna, how are we gonna go about getting all the gear since they've grown out of it?

Todd: Absolutely.

Darcy: So, um, what lessons have you learned in effectively communicating, uh, sustainability without overwhelming the consumer? I mean, there's so much that we can share, but you have to pick your spots of how are we reaching them and in what ways.

Todd: Yeah, I think a couple, and I'm a scientist by background, more than marketeer, so take, uh, it with that. But, uh, I think number one is, before we did any of the communication, we had to know the product was going to deliver. And we have to keep raising the bar on the performance and letting the consumer know about that. Right now we're in the process of. Tide has a massive upgrade that's just launched on cleaning for whites in cold water and helping people see and know that the product is going to delight and that when they try it, it delivers, is a really important one. So making sure that the product can deliver on the promise is the first one. But I think the second one is really meeting people where they are. Uh, we talked about it earlier. As passionate as I am about reducing carbon footprint and how big an impact we're having there, by getting people to wash on gold, a lot more people spark to the, oh, I can save money every month on my energy bill, I'm going to do that. But in reality, if you're getting people to go through the habit change. The earth doesn't care about the motivation. Right. Either way, uh, the carbon footprint reduction of the switch to cold is the same. So we're just looking for ways we can engage people and help them make that choice regardless of the motivation behind it.

Allan: So we've got earth month coming up. How does Earth month play into your efforts? Is it important? Is it just another month?

Todd: Yeah, it's, well, every month, earth months, right. But, uh, no. Um, well, I mentioned we've got tideevo launching right now. So, uh, linked to coming out in the timing of Earth month. Uh, the other thing from an earth month standpoint, we're in the middle of launching a really big upgrade for olive tide right now on cold water cleaning. And one of the things that gets me excited about is we've threaded that needle and our technical community has been amazing on driving better cold water cleaning and the messaging that we're able to do with that to help people see, oh, I can also wash whites on cold and get amazing results. But as we've done that, we're having a really significant reduction in carbon footprint of the formulas, taking water out of the formulas, and also reducing the amount of plastic for use as we do the concentrations. So in addition to the massive impact that it has by enabling people to wash more loads on cold, we're also able to help on those net zero parts of the commitment at the same time on, um, reducing the carbon emissions of the product, the amount of plastic and the amount of water.

Darcy: Well, I have to say, Todd, uh, it has been amazing to be able to talk to you and understanding, you know, I think also for our listeners to understand, it's not just what P and G is doing. Like you said from, you know, the beginning and the manufacturing, but the role the consumer can also play in educating them and having an effect on sustainability and what we're providing to the environment. So we really do appreciate your time today. It is stories like yours that remind us to keep innovating, stay inspired, and let us continue to redefine the world of CPG. Thanks for being our guest.

Todd: Thanks so much for inviting me.

Allan: Well, that was fascinating. You know, I never, never realized, uh, how much of the sustainability challenge happens in the home.

Darcy: Yeah, I think that was the biggest aha moment for me, without a doubt, is, you know, when they're breaking it down, you know, how much goes into the raw materials, you know, as our answers alluded, I thought it would be more into the manufacturing and the facilities and everything that goes into it. But to find, I believe it was around 70% is actually happening at the load process, which really goes to say the consumer holds so much power, not only purchasing power, but then how, you know, in laundry care, how they're actually washing their clothes can make the biggest difference and the biggest impact.

Allan: Absolutely. And the other thing that stuck out for me is these sponsorships and partnerships have got to be so expensive. And when you think about it, this is not traditional marketing. It's probably not going to generate a whole lot of additional sales. So it's really great to see companies investing that way.

Darcy: Absolutely. I mean, just to talk the NFL, right. You think, okay, you have them coming in and trying to persuade them to turn their laundry and to wash everything on cold. That is such a feat in itself. I mean, it is like they said, we learn, like, from a very young age. You know, I'm a tight customer, but I was thinking about this as we were talking. My family's a tide family, but my family a tide family, because my mom was a tide. She washed all of our clothes in tide. So there is this generational thing of how we just learn to do our laundry. And, you know, it was very much ingrained in me. Warm or hot, if things are very dirty or you need to get. So to be able to change that philosophy when doing laundries, like he said, you can't pick a better showcase that have to be the most pristine there on. You know, they're on tv every Sunday, every Thursday night is, um, you know, it's a pretty out of the box way of thinking about bringing it to life. So I think they've got some great partnerships. I can't wait to see. What will be interesting is to track when they actually have got out there with a lot of the washing machines. And what he's talking about is that next step is it immediately clicked in my head of I go and I press any load on my laundry except I believe super delicate goes to cold. But outside of that, it all naturally default setting is warm. So if they can change small things like that, you make a huge difference. And how a consumer is washing their clothes 100%.

Allan: So you've got the manufacturer like P&G you've got the shopper, you've got the machine manufacturers. The one constituent we didn't really talk about was the retailer. I think it'd be fascinating to get a, uh, major retailer on here and talk about how they're seeing sustainability in these categories or just more broadly.

Darcy: Absolutely. Because you hear about the retailers bringing in new brands that are more sustainable. And we've covered several of them, even in our podcasts. Um, and I love the initiatives, but what are they doing to partner with their legacy brands that are really making these huge steps and initiatives? What role can the Walmarts of the world or the Krogers of the world or the targets of the world play in this category? Because I think we all, the key part, and the beauty of this story is we're learning the consumer has its part, the manufacturer has its part. Um, even we have our part of how we recycle and what we do after the use of the product. But, um, it does seem like, as they talked about, with just a few of their new products, um, that are launching here, there's more to come on how, what it looks like now is going to look totally different than in, uh, 20. What did they say? 2040?

Allan: Yes.

Darcy: Yeah. So 2040. Imagine right now they're getting a drier tile launching, you know, where it's in a paper, you know, box is basically how it looks. I mean, that's very different than having pods and a big plastic container. So who knows what it will look like by 2040?

Allan: Well, you know, speaking to our own world, um, you know, the e commerce potential of those categories is going to go up dramatically.

Darcy: Absolutely. It's going to be a game changer for it, because now you can ship, you know, and I thought about it in two ways. One is you're okay, your consumer's okay, a, to ship more in bulk, because when you think about, you have the big jugs, it's hard to store all of that. You have small boxes of laundry tiles. I mean, that's a game changer. And being able to buy it in bulk, also to be able to afford shipping it, all of that, the cost of doing goods with it. So it will be, I think they'll see it drive sales in different ways as well.

Allan: They just have to be careful to not make it look like crackers or cookies.

Darcy: Exactly, exactly. We don't want any of that to be happening. But it is, it's interesting. And I still go back to, we've made, we've made laundry so convenient, a dryer sheet, a pod. So now to make the consumer really think about what they're doing when they're at that machine, it's, you know, that's it. That's a big ask. So I like the different ways that they're going about really tapping into that consumer and the journey that the consumer's on when it comes to laundry care.

Allan: Yep. You know, back, um, when I was, uh, actually working for P&G the sustainability idea, I don't know that it's ever going to play out, was that people would walk in with their own jugs to a, uh, grocery store and basically push the tap and refill, uh, their jugs. Probably, uh, an outdated approach. Um, I think the little, um, wafers are a much better idea.

Darcy: Yeah. But I loved even the nod of how sustainability has become such a big part of who PNG is because of talking about the generations building brands and that they're going to be around for generations. It's a nice way to take such a motto and be able to look at it broadly of. I think once we all become parents and we look at things, we realize a lot of what we do is no longer for ourselves, but more for years to come and for our children and their children and much more. So.

Allan: Absolutely.

Darcy: They've got big things happening that little company, P and G. They do. Well, it was a great episode. Todd was a great guest. Um, as I said, he's equipped me with some good data points that I can go now argue. Yeah, I can go argue my not rinsing dishes.

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