PODCAST: The Scent of Downy Single Rinse Success with Santiago Nettle

We delve into the dynamic world of product marketing, navigating its complexities and triumphs alongside Santiago Nettle, the Regional Marketing Director at Beiersdorf and a leading figure in consumer packaged goods.

In this conversation, Santiago guides us through his remarkable journey in scent marketing, highlighting his pivotal role in revolutionizing Downy's brand image and market share with innovative fragrance concepts. From his early days as a Brand Manager at Procter & Gamble to his influential position at Beiersdorf, Santiago's career is a testament to the power of creativity and strategic thinking in marketing.

Tune in to gain invaluable insights from Santiago's unique perspective on the ever-changing landscape of product marketing, making this an essential listen for anyone passionate about the fusion of art and science in marketing.

Join us as we discuss:

• Santiago reflects on the broader implications of his work, including the shift in marketing strategies from traditional methods to a more digital, data-driven approach.
• The role of consumer insights and changing social norms in developing marketing strategies.
• Evolution of product marketing from traditional media to digital and data-driven

Find us on Spotify, Apple, and anywhere you listen to your favorite podcasts, or click the player below to hear this episode now!

Transcript

>> Santiago Nettle: To grow, you need to think outside the box. For me, is the incorrect one. First of all, you need to see inside the box the things that you have. Because inside the products and the brands that you have, you have plenty of ideas, things that you have not communicated to consumers, ingredients that you are not exploding or you don't even know that were there that are important for consumers. You.

>> Announcer: You're listening to CPG launch leaders, the show where we interview new product trailblazers. You're ready for inspiration and secrets from the front lines of CPG innovation. Now, here are our hosts, Darcy Ramler and alan Perez.

>> Darcy: Welcome to CPG launch leaders. I'm Darcy Ramler, here with my co host, alan Peretz. Today we're talking with Santiago nettle. Santiago has in depth experience in brand building and management, including overseeing new product launches, design, and brand integrity. Santiago will tell us all about driving share for Downey through scent innovation. Let's get this thing started. Santiago, we're beyond excited to have you on to share this fascinating story of driving share and growth for Downey through scent innovation.

>> Allan: I'm so excited. Santiago, I know the fabric softeners category. I know the competitors. And the story you're going to tell us is great. Can, you tell us a bit about the role, that you had when you started this story?

>> Santiago Nettle: For me, it has been by far the most exciting part of my career. And I was a brand manager. In fact, it was my first brand manager assignment in PNG. I was then located in Caracas. And this was kind of at that moment, we had this regional role that we call GBU, global business unit. But it was a regional. So basically, we were designing, innovation, designing and developing communication for all Latin America. Our biggest market was, and still is, I believe, Mexico. So that was my main responsibility. But then I had also a responsibility of know the title was so fancy because it was like regional, fabric enhancers brand manager. And the fact is, when I took over, it was Downey, Mexico. That was the whole thing. So then the mission was to fulfill the title. So I had to launch Downey, actually, in more countries. And it was very exciting. And this specific case was the beginning of that.

>> Darcy: And when you were brought in, obviously, with the fancy title and all, Santiago, what was the objective that they were really looking at to grow, Mexico and expand into Latin America. What was driving that?

>> Santiago Nettle: Well, it was a tough time because I think you guys talked with the inventor of my previous, story that basically PNG brought down a single rings into Latin America. Three, four, years before I took the position. So that was a revolution. And I'm sure in your podcast you could get some of that. But after two, three years, like happens with technologies, technologies can be copied. And that was exactly what was happening. So we were reaching a plateau. Competition already, developed something similar and we were in a plateau for one year before I got into position. So we stopped growing share, we stopped growing net sales, we stopped growing penetration. So when I came in, we need to figure it out, something different to accelerate and to continue the brand development. So it's a big challenge, big shoes to fill. The previous manager has made a huge success with the most wonderful invention in the fabric and cancer category. So I had the task to figure out something similar or get myself fired in the process.

>> Allan: So, the brand was all about mother's love at the time. Was that working well in Mexico or not?

>> Santiago Nettle: No, not at all. That was a tough one because you have been in PNG and PNG is all about, business models and frameworks and driving equity. So, as you might know, this motherly love was invented by proctor and Downey basically in the US. And this is how they brought this category alive and won share everywhere else. The problem is that our competitors started the business way before us. So they decided that it was a great idea taking that positioning and taking ah it with when, by the time when Downey entered the market, many years, before I got into position, this was already blocked. So the problem is, every time we did a copy, every time we brought an innovation and we tried to bring this mother love, people was recalling the competition. So it was extremely frustrating putting grps, spending money behind very expensive campaigns. And when you ask consumers about the copy and the campaign, they mentioned that this is a campaign from your competitor. So we were struggling because, yes, it was really tough.

>> Darcy: So at that time, would you have know, even though all Downey was doing, due to what your competitors had already kind of, laid the landscape for, were you struggling to find a differentiator for Downey at that?

>> Santiago Nettle: You know, the big differentiator was down single rinse. So this was something really unique that creates some difference. But then when they match the technology and you need to go back to your equities and building that position and purchase intention drivers, everything was on bulk competition. So we needed to start thinking outside of the box. I hate the outside of the box expression. But again, we need to find something totally different and we're basically desperate. You don't want to show a, decrease or flat shares or net sales. That is even worse in a country like Mexico, year over year. So we were desperately finding a way. Fortunately, Downey was small enough to allow us get or fly under the radar, things that you cannot imagine doing with a brand like tite, for example, or gillette, for example, because it's in everybody's performance papers. without it, we can get away with murder for a short time without being noticed. and that was the window of opportunity that we had for six, eight months to try something totally new without getting punished or fired in the process.

>> Darcy: So, needless to say, when you're summing it up, the pressure was a little bit on at this time. Right, Santiago?

>> Santiago Nettle: M absolutely. No. You can imagine you have been promoted. You think that everybody's looking at you, and you're a sub brand manager. Nobody's looking at you. Nobody knows that you exist, especially in a company like PNG. In PNG, you become marketing director, and you are not even middle management. But you think of yourself about the big shot. m but it's more the pressure that I had to prove that they have been writing, promoting me, and I'm coming with new ideas and needed to figure it out something really fast.

>> Allan: Well, they do say that, brand manager is the best job, within PNG. After that, it, gets a little more indirect, I suppose. But tell us about the ideas that you had on the table that you were looking at.

>> Santiago Nettle: Yeah. M this was funny, but this was the beginning of everything. Every six months or every nine months, you need to sit down with the perfume houses. This is a fabric software. So the core of what you do is basically selling new. And back then, we were working mostly with Givod and also with Firmenich. But Givodan was the main supplier. So they come and they do these fancy presentations, and they bring those privileged noses, and they try to. And, of course, because we were PNG and this was Downey, they bring a portfolio of extremely boring things, like roses from the alps and lilies from the prayer, and the same boring thing. And then at some point, we stopped them. I know you're bringing me everything that you think we're going to buy you, but I need you to show me what you think. We will never buy you. Why? Because. And we told them we are desperate. We need new ideas. Maybe we can use this as an inspiration. It's not that you're going to buy, but these guys are so dreamy and emotional and inspirational that maybe you get a couple of things, and then something strikes and you get a new idea. And after pushback, several pushbacks, they decided to share with us what they were doing for more, sophisticated perfume categories. And they start talking about trends and the recolor and the passion. And then they bring something called tango. It was a conceptual fragrance. what that tango smells like, and that's the magic. It can smell to whatever I tell you it smells. It's basically how I build the fantasy, and it's about passion and love. So we start getting excited. My boss is argentinian, I'm chilean, but I declare myself as an argentinian. So when he says tango, things start happening. Okay, now I'm interested. Now you got my attention. And they start sharing with us. And basically it was all about sex. It's a very sensual.

>> Darcy: I was about to say, you bring in the sexy to the scent with tango.

>> Santiago Nettle: Yeah. And then we start looking to each other. This is wild enough. We have money for FGIs. You always have money for FGI. Let's throw this into the mix. Let's show the lilies of the Alps and the roses of the prayer or whatever. and let's shoot tango and see what happens. Just for fun. Nothing to lose. So basically, we see this concept and we start looking to each other and let's give it a try. We have money and let's see what happens. Nobody's looking. We have some time and let's see. So we go and start talking to consumers. We show them the perfume, we read them the concept. You know how this goes. Then you give them the product and they smell, and then we tell them that this is a fabric softener. And what do they think about it? And it was amazing because they were saying no. And then I explained the context of the mexican consumer. That is a very particular one. But you knew, you saw the body language, and they loved the thing. They totally loved the thing, but they were not going to say yes. And then we dig deeper. And this was the problem. The first problem is, don't take me wrong, but this is a very, big generalization, but usually in the category that we work at that time, fabric enhancers, women are treated like a prop. The mom is a prop. The mom is not a woman. The mom is the one that washes your clothes, washes the dishes, takes care of the husband, and that's it. Moms do not have sex, mom do not have emotions. And basically, they are devoted to the family. This is the stupid way we have been framing this fabric softener mom. Until back then. and when we were telling them, of course, they like it. After a while they told us, no, I like it. But the problem is the fabric softener is for the family. And I see this for lingerie or the best closest. And I cannot save my husband to his job smelling to this. So we started negotiating with, them. You're talking about two, three days of focus, which was insane. And then we cracked the first barrier. That is one. If you can get away with it, will you buy it? Meaning if you buy for your family, you know, this is for you, you loved it and nobody complains, will you buy it? Sure. Yes. So that was the first big step. the second step is about, okay, so how this makes you feel, things happening to them and they telling us, you know what, it's okay. But this feeling sexy, this is not for me, because I'm a married woman and I have a husband. So I don't want going around the street and other men telling me things or trying to take me or asking me for something. So this is not just right. And then we get to the second barrier. Okay, but what if this makes your husband take a look at you again? This is for your husband. This is for you feeling sexy and for your husband to see you sexy. Okay, that's something that I can agree with. so we started playing with this concept and finally we developed this concept about tango that is basically all about this is recovering this sexy and romance. And this is a trigger for your romance, with your husband. And the promise was he will turn around for the first time in many times and look you twice. And then they were all totally on fire with the thing. Again, it was very funny because when we started, they told us that they don't like it. But when the focus group finished, everyone and every, and each of them asked us for taking the, you know, this is the kind of things, And we launched this thing in Mexico and it was a huge revolution. Totally sold out in the first four never. We were able to match the forecast in volumes like six months after the fact because we keep on putting this on the shelves and immediately went out of stock and it created a huge revolution. And this is why, or this is how we develop this new positioning that was around experientials, experiences and experiential, this is how we call it. And we got what we were looking for because this was about the women behind the mum and it was not about the since, you know, in mexican consumers heads, mums don't have sex. This is something that Suavitel mums cannot relate to. And Suavitel cannot claim to. So we were for the women, this is for you and for getting away with it and to make you feel more sexy and to getting your husband to see you again. And they are basically a perfume for your clothes. And so Itel kept on driving the motherly love and that was the beginning of it, I was going to say.

>> Darcy: I mean, going from motherly love into know you're having such a significant product positioning change. Why do you mean not to say p G is not about allowing these things, but they're a little bit more traditional. I mean, this is a huge shift. Why do you think PNG let you guys pursue it in such a significant way?

>> Santiago Nettle: Because since we were able to fly under the radar for six months, when they start showing up, we had data. At the end of the day, it's very different. Now. You can get the same with precision marketing. You do a couple of audiences, did you try different concepts, et cetera. And you in two, three weeks, you can have very strong results to prove your point. In this case, we have very strong sellout data, net sales data, share data, and then we committed to start doing this tracking to see if this was working or not for us or it was detrimental in terms of brand equity. So we were doing something wrong and the answer was hell no. They loved it. They loved the brand. This was unique. It's basically what you ask from a brand position in a rank equity. This was ownable, it was not repeatable by the competition. It was something that was positive for consumers and driving purchase intention. So we discovered something in the category that has been around for a long, long time, but nobody knew that it was so powerful. And the way we managed it, to put it, created a huge point of difference versus a competition that lasted until I left at least four or five years.

>> Darcy: I mean, the past brand positioning really leaned like a motherly love leaned into the social norm of what a mother should be. To your point of, you know, when you guys went out with tango, you almost gave the woman, the mom the permission to take back a little bit of what it could be for.

>> Santiago Nettle: You know, it's making that woman whole. It was already, a trend, know, making more visible women. Mexico is a very traditional country, but then you start giving them their place, you start acknowledging them. This is super important. You tell them that you see them.

>> Darcy: Absolutely.

>> Santiago Nettle: A lot of things happening or a lot of rights got even brighter because we just pinpoint this one. And it was great. We were able to develop after tango, one concept that was very funny, was black elegance. And the concept is a woman dresses for other women. So basically, it's not about just you or impressing anyone. It's for other women and how you are seen. And then we got, ah, another concept that, this was really hilarious because it was moonflower. Moonflower, if you google, is an actual flower that blossoms once a year, but literally smelled like rotten meat. But it's very impressive because it's like a very big flower. But the whole concept of moonflower, something that blossoms at night with the moon, et cetera, and all the mystery around that build on the same thing. Again, we were telling consumers how experiences smell, and of course, the fragrances for Joanne are outstanding. The guys were amazing. Matching the mental concept that we created with a specific fragrance and notes. But they were scents. and this whole line build a lot of users and net sales. In fact, we were able to almost, when we started all this journey, we were around 1819. Sharepoints, value sharepoints. After three years, we have reached almost 32. We were like two, three points of getting brand leadership in the category for, our competitors from Colgate. and net sales in Mexico were growing in volume, like 30, 35%. So a lot of new users trying the category, so it was great.

>> Allan: Santiago, you haven't talked a lot about the packaging. I, think I remember the bottle for tango is very red. Right. And I think the rest of the category was all pastel colors at the time.

>> Santiago Nettle: That's the other thing. Of course, tango needed to be red. So first of all, we did the red bottle. Then we added the shrink sleeve. That was an innovation for us. So it was not more the boring stick on. So you were able to take the whole experience and flower to a complete bottle. And then we had, ah, black elegance was a black bottle was another disruptor in the category. When you see, like, pale pinks, pale everything, basically, this is like wash everything. And, in the case of moonflower was a dark purple one. So when you immediately notice, as tango grew, you immediately saw the red block there. It was like, you have so many scents, and then you see a block of red and then a block of red plus, and it caught a lot of attention.

>> Allan: So the shelf is a big part of this for you, for sure.

>> Darcy: That's what I was going to say as you went into launching this, and obviously you had identified, okay, we're onto something. We're making a big switch here. What was the original marketing and advertising as you introduced the scent? And we're really rolling this out. How was it received. Was there different approaches that you guys took from a marketing side?

>> Santiago Nettle: Yeah, for example, and, this is something that we did when we were expanding the model in our markets. And it was funny, usually you get, and this is a discussion, maybe you need to do it only when you have a real strong product like this one, or like down a single rings at some case that, you know, that is a winner product. There is always, a resistance from your sales team and also from the trade, particular traditional trade, to take a lot of inventory of things that they don't know. So usually you struggle, even if you have a very successful campaign to build this velocity because you don't have enough stock. That's what's happened in Mexico. When we launched, we could not have enough stock and we really understood the potential after three, four months when we had sufficient inventory. But takes a lot of time and you lose a lot of money and share. When we launched in Peru, for example, one of the things that we did in Peru is traditional trades there is huge, and we were not getting the level of inventories, ah, that we know this was going to require. So instead of fighting them, the decision was to accelerate the launch and launch the campaign with only two weeks of distribution, that is totally insufficient, in the traditional trade, usually in Peru, you need from four to six weeks to build the minimum distribution. but, then we send people to do the demos and to show the product near these distributors and big neighborhoods. So what happened is when the campaign hit the tv and the demos start rolling, people start going to these traditional stores asking from the product, and there was no availability. So they went to the wholesalers asking for the inventories that were not there, and then hell went loose. It's like everybody now was desperate to get as many bottles of this thing as you can get because these people already complaining because they want this product and it's not there. So again, this is a nontraditional approach and then created a virtual cycle, because then they know that there is selling, they know that it's not enough. They want two or three times the quantities that they will usually get. And that created a lot of traction, into a trade as well. Very fast.

>> Announcer: Hi, Jesse. What brings you to the airport, Mike?

>> AD: Jesse: I'm off to the headquarters to share an update on the big launch.

>> Announcer: Oh, I've heard it's selling really well. Care to share your secret?

>> AD: Jesse: Well, just between us, it's all thanks to bold Labs, their exclusive digital test market research, allows you to optimize your product marketing and pricing. Before the big launch.

>> Announcer: That sounds fantastic. How can I learn more?

>> AD: Jesse: Just visit www.boldlabs.com. It's all right there.

>> Darcy: This is the final call for flight 723 to Chicago.

>> Announcer: Looks like we'd better go. Thanks for the tip, Jesse.

>> AD: Jesse: See you soon, Mike. And remember, bold Labs is ready to help your product soar.

>> Darcy: Plus, you've created this sexy product, and they're going to use it once. You got to keep with your sexy.

>> Santiago Nettle: Know, I read a lot, and I love this guy, Robert Cialtini. He wrote a couple of books, influence and persuasion, and he talks about the scarcity principle. So I haven't read that book. I think it was not even written back then. But when you think about this, if you have a hot product, you know they're going to demand it. And then you create on top of this the scarcity sensation that is not enough for everyone, and that even creates more desire for having it. It's a tough thing to get. So this created a huge momentum. The fabric software in Peru was not then that big, but in eight months, we went from zero to 54 sharepoints. It was ridiculous. We won golden fis. And part of this was the traditional trade that in Mexico back then was like 60% of the distribution that you could get. So, this was something totally unconventional that we did there and worked like a charm.

>> Allan: So you talked about these focus groups and, the insights you got from them. Did anything that you heard change the direction, in the market or overall across the region?

>> Santiago Nettle: Again, this is when we knew that we had to talk to this woman in a different way, and that created the different positioning. but that was basically, it was confirming that we could talk to this woman in a very different way, being more edgy without losing them. I have tried these things in other categories, like detergents, and you cannot get away from this. You move. This ideal, for example, is a brand with more than 60 years in Mexico. Ariel women are very special, and they don't want many changes. But in this case, Downey was a younger, fresh brand, the innovative brand back then because of DSR, Downey single rings. This opened our mind regarding, yes, we can take more risks. The problem was that, we started with this business was around 140,000,000, dollars when we took it. When I took it in 2018, two years after, was at 260,000,000. And now it's present not only in Mexico, it's in Colombia, Venezuela, Ecuador and Peru. And then suddenly happens, then it's visible. I think we get into trouble then. Okay, you don't want to mess it. But we created this mess and it's working, but you don't want to mess it because now it's too relevant. If the deviation is big, it will alter everybody. Performance review. So then, we started losing a little bit of the creative control and, fortunately then they changed my assignment. So it was problem of the next brand manager.

>> Darcy: You lived up to your fancy title, you were good to go.

>> Santiago Nettle: Yeah, I did my fancy part and then now it's problem of the next one needs to invent something.

>> Darcy: So one of the things, even when we were talking about the Downey single rents, we talked a lot about the experience of hearing the feedback from the consumers going into their household, seeing how it was changing their life and impacting their life for you. Did you do a lot of that when you were directly connecting and getting that feedback from that consumers? How did that play into decision making that you were at the time that you guys were going through this big transition?

>> Santiago Nettle: Honestly, compared to what Downey single rings did for consumers, this was a scratch in the surface. I was fortunate enough to be able to launch Downey single rings first in many countries before moving to this. And this is one of the, in your career you get once or twice the chance of launching something that relevant, but not only relevant from a probe functional point of view. It's relevant because it's a life changing probe and it's a fabric softener. When you consider, for example, in Central America, in Peru, that 60 or 70% of the population do not have access to regular water supply and they have to walk with buckets. So the whole bleed laundry process is a nightmare. It's time consuming, it's exhausting, it's expensive, and then you give them back with one single product, 2 hours of her life, people, I heard someone told me in Peru, please thank, this person who invented this book, it has changed my life, God bless him, and I didn't hear it once or twice. So being the guy behind the brain, running the show, not even being close to the guy who invented the formula, it was really rewarding. And then on top of this, and this is the cherry on the pie, we had this visibility thing, this recognition thing, and we connect on m that emotional level. It's not about trying to see and trying to sell stuff. They are not dumb, but then it's how you talk to them and how they felt. It was amazing. It was amazing.

>> Darcy: But even in this story, right where you're talking about tango taking the position of a mother being seen like, as you said, the motherly love just being in this box where she's been put in, there is something to changing and giving her, empowering her to buy something, to feel like she owns a bit of that. I mean, as you said, you leaned into where things were maybe going from a social stance as well. But that is a power of you think about it. Fabric softener really is it, can it tie? But there's such an emotional connection, like you say, you say the word tango, there's emotional connection of what it brings up from an experience standpoint.

>> Santiago Nettle: Latin american women, are extremely working and they do put family first and they put themselves not in second or in third, in fourth place many times. So we have been to many focus group. They acknowledge or they tell you that maybe they don't buy new stuff, no new clothes or new cosmetics, or they go walking to very long, distances just to have extra money to buy her kids, chocolate or a coke or something. So giving them this chance of you are buying something, but this is for you first. And we know that it's important, that your family is not upset about this because she feels guilty if she does otherwise, she feels guilty. So in this case, we were able, it was funny because they felt like the smart one. They were tricking the family. They were buying this for them and nobody's noticing. Of course, they know that they changed the brand and the scent, but it was not something that was disconnecting anyone. And she knew that it was for her, it was something she was doing for herself.

>> Allan: So you said before, you don't like the expression, thinking outside the box when it comes to innovation. Can you say a bit more about.

>> Santiago Nettle: Because, you know, usually, and I'm in a new company, I work in Nivia, in buyers is a german company. And this company has relied on launching stuff like crazy, like every three months or six months for many, many years. When you see, and we did a lot of analysis on this one, when you see where 80% of your net sales are coming from, they come for products that were launched before 2014, between 2014 and 2021, 22, a lot of things had launched. So usually this idea of that to grow, you need to think outside the box, for me, is the incorrect one. First of all, you need to see inside the box the things that you have, because inside the products and the brands that you have, you have plenty of ideas, things that you have not communicated to consumers, ingredients that you are not exploding or you don't even know that were there that are important for consumers, again, this is a new scent, but behind the positioning was the growth. There is a couple of examples that I had from other brands like Ariel. We discovered an ingredient that was there for eight years that nobody made any connection. And then we understood that the benefit behind the ingredient could be connected to one of the most recalled problems that consumers had. That is basically when you stain your clothes and it gets dry, you have the perception that this is going to be more difficult to remove. And this was exactly what the ingredient was doing, was actually making the stain softer so it can be removed as fresh. So the claim was now, you can remove dry stains as if they were fresh. The grill was then for ten years, and then we have something that boosted the brand, like 20%. So again, instead of trying to develop something new, put r and d resources, et cetera. You need to really know what you have inside the packaging, what the ingredients are. Try to connect those benefits or those ingredients with relevant benefits, and test that first. This is what in PNG, we call commercial innovation, and for me, is the biggest source of marketing and inspiration, and it's a very cheap one, and it's available for anyone. You only have to make your due diligence.

>> Darcy: So we know, obviously, with all successes, there's lessons learned. But I'm a firm believer there's more learned in your failures, especially in product launches.

>> Santiago Nettle: yeah.

>> Darcy: For you, is there any failures or misses that you can point to or lessons learned as well as you've gone through the innovation side?

>> Santiago Nettle: Yeah. After I left PNg, I moved to LG Electronics, so a totally different business, consumer electronics, et cetera. And at that point, it was all about going from plasmas to, led. And then this war behind the. Everybody was, I think it was ten years ago or 15 years ago. This is all about who has the better three d technology. There were passive glasses and there were active glasses, et cetera. and of course, LG has a proposition that was a better proposition. It was, passive glasses, so you didn't have to put a usb, so a more stable image. And then the first mistake that we did was falling in love with our solution and assuming that this free technology was so good, because it was, that we will turn this into a purchase intention driver on top of everything else. And we started investing. And what was the big mistakes? Whatever the category is, you need to really understand what the purchase intentions drivers are and trying to own those, instead of trying to convince consumers that they are different purchase intention drivers that are more important than what they think, because then you spend twice convincing them of the purchasing driver and owning them. And we fell in love with 3d. Trying to convince that back then was more important than having a smart tv. That now, in retrospective, it sounds even more stupid because you know what happened. all tvs are smart. You cannot find a. We spent tons of, it was a global thing, but we fell in love with our solution. So the key takeaway of this one is, first of all, you need to fall in love with the problem, know with the solution, and then you need to respect consumers. There is a reason why they love things. Unless you know, and unless you bring something like the iPhone, it's very difficult to change habits. In Proctor, we suffered with a liquid detergent for many years and after that with the pot, so you don't mess with the habits. It moved really slow and it was, a miserable fail because I think we did a good job putting all the materials, the understanding, but the fundamental was not there. People was not buying a tv because it was a. We learned in the hard way.

>> Darcy: So obviously, if we're in 2024 now and getting ready to launch products, what do you think is different about launching. You launched Tango, taking something and launching it in 2024, what do you think is different? Or how do you approach things differently?

>> Santiago Nettle: First of all, it's very hectic. The good thing is that you can test really fast, multiple ideas and get immediate response. So it's not about your sniffing, instinct or educated guess. You can get a lot of data really fast, so you can actually see where this is going. another thing that is funny is that if you really want to make a breakthrough, you can ask consumers if they like or not the things that they know, but you cannot ask them for the thing that they don't. So when you're really bringing something new, going with consumers is getting tougher. You really need to find other ways to get their opinion. Usually, especially in markets in Latin America, they reject a lot of the new things and then the environment, because now I'm working in skincare. And then there is a whole universe. you're competing with digital native brands, so you're not competing with the usual guys. It's not PNG, it's not lever, it's not brands. This was bought by Unilever, like drunk elephant.

>> Darcy: They're the disruptors right now.

>> Santiago Nettle: And the problem is that the Kylie Jenner's brand of the world. So you have this whole influencer thing happening and driving their own products and they're more, on target and personalized and it's getting difficult today. I think we're in a pivotal point because these brands are not getting yet into traditional trade. They don't have the scale. So it's either we know how to do digital fast and get into their world before they get into the traditional, the brick and mortar, and then we're going to struggle because they're faster than we are, they are agile, they know their consumers better than we do. and the last thing that is for me is totally different is how you create your media plans. Back in the day, the hard work happened before you get to the network. It's like thinking out the concept and the briefing and the storyboard and the shooting and the editing. When you have your copy ready, your 32nd, you're done. You put that on air and you move to the next thing and track and wait for results. In digital days, this is when your work starts. You have all your assets that now you don't have one, you have 1000 because you have seven different audiences, et cetera. And then you need to start optimizing. And you test one thing and you test different audiences and you change the word and you change the image and you invest more in this audience and you get this one that is working and you do the lookalike and you will discover new consumers. So it's extremely extenuating how you do marketing today. The good thing is there is a saying, there is a guy that I love to recall that it was called John wanna Maker. It was like the invent. He had a, very famous phrase that he said, like, back in the 900s, I'm sure that 50% of the money I spend in marketing is a waste. The problem is that I don't know which 50%. And now that you have precision marketing, you can tell which 50%. And not only that, you can act on it while you are using it. So for me, this is a fundamental change in how we do marketing and how complicated, sophisticated and actionable the marketing that we do today, is.

>> Allan: Santiago, can you tell us a bit about what you're working on today?

>> Santiago Nettle: Yeah, I'm basically now in Dubai. I'm based in Dubai since August. I started working with buyersdors, that is, the maker of Nivea, Userin and Lapari, among other brands. And now I'm in the marketing director position for skincare for emerging markets. That's basically the whole world, with the exception of China, Europe, North America and Canada. So, we see all the skincare. So it's the body brands. the face care blend, face cleansing, lip care, sun care. Basically, it's like 60% of the business, for Nivia, that is our mass brand, in emerging markets, and our regional office is in Dubai.

>> Darcy: Well, Santiago, thank you so much for sharing your story. It is stories like yours that remind us to keep innovating, stay inspired, and let's continue to redefine the world of CPG innovation. We really appreciate you.

>> Santiago Nettle: No, I really thank you. I really thank you both for the invitation. I had a lot of fun. I love stories. and the experience is amazing. So thank you for allowing me being in the show and sharing.

>> Darcy: Absolutely.

>> Announcer: Santiago, you've, been listening to CPG launch leaders, a show from bold strategies Incorporated. Don't miss the next thrilling launch story. Follow the podcast on your podcast player now. Please give us a rating, leave a comment, and share episodes with your friends until next time.

Episode keywords: Cpg Innovation, Brand Management, Product Launches, Scent Innovation, Downy Fabric Softener, Consumer Goods, Marketing Strategies, Brand Differentiation, Latin America Market, Consumer Insights, Experiential Branding, Focus Groups, Brand Positioning, Market Expansion, Fragrance Trends, Purchase Intention, Brand Equity, Competitive Landscape, Consumer Behavior, Digital Marketing